Ivo Perelman and John Butcher

By Sammy Stein

In 2024, I interviewed saxophonist Ivo Perelman for Free Jazz Collective. He
told me he was coming to the UK in October 2025 to record with John Butcher.
Perelman described Butcher as ‘a multi-faceted musician with an original,
elegant, yet powerful sax voice.’ Butcher has played with John Edwards, the
late, great John Russell, Phil Minton, Pat Thomas, Mark Sanders, and a host
of other musicians. He has great versatility and in-the-moment skills that
can turn the atmosphere of a performance. When Perelman commented on
collaborating with Butcher, I mused at the time that this would make for an
interesting recording, and it has materialised in ‘Duologues 4’. Perelman is
on tenor sax, and Butcher on soprano and tenor.

Duologues 4 proves yet again that Perelman makes some inspired choices in
collaborators. Teamed with butcher, Perelman is more conversational on this
recording – and no wonder. Butcher is one of the most creative saxophone
players the UK scene has produced in a long time, and perhaps one who
deserves more acclaim. The album is infused with Butcher’s intuitive
responses and quiet, solid playing. The opening track is akin to a
respectful argument, with both players alternating phrase development and
interpreting the other’s take with harmonic dialogue. Perelman and Butcher
are one of those combinations that you might hope would happen, and when it
did, there was no disappointment. Perelman’s register-flitting and rapidity
are exemplary on this track, but Butcher has that ability to slot just the
right tone and note into any gaps left by Perelman’s multiple register
coverage.

Track two is busy, the speed frenetic, and both players create breathy,
singular melodies and develop intricate harmonies as the track evolves,
weaving melodies in and out, across and over each other, while making full
use of stops and gaps. Butcher shows he is gifted in spontaneity and
placement of phrases.

The entire album is a continuum of this conversation that carries on between
Butcher and Perelman. It is an album of equality where Perelman often
suggests the theme, or introduces an idea, but Butcher responds with
creative development or apposite music thoughts that Perelman instinctively
follows. At times, Butcher is like a stalking wolf, picking up the trails
Perelman sets and ng them before diverging off onto tracks of his own
invention. The changes are interesting throughout because they happen with
subtlety, almost before you realise it and the thinking of the two masters
is also intriguing, such as on track 3 where there is individual melodic
phrasing, but by the time four minutes and around twenty second have
elapsed, the pair are in delightful, elevated harmony with an intense energy
that flows from the music.

There is a calmness to some of the music also, such as the gentler start of
track 4, where the musicians are clearly listening to each other, the
intensity palpable in the responses, and both, led by Perelman, visit the
upper reaches of altissimo.

There is diversity too, such as on track 5, where Perelman introduces a
subtle long take on a swung beat, and the slap tongue sections on track 6,
coupled with exploration of as many forms as it is possible to fit in a
track less than four minutes long. The longest track is track 7, and here
both players get the chance – and take it- to be melodic, harmonious and,
naturally, introduce some spontaneity (a lot). Butcher is at his best here
in the lower register of the tenor and in this track lurks a bit of swing, a
touch of classical and a good dose of free playing – wrapped in a colourful
coat of intensity. The final track is a glorious, popping escapade,
enjoyable for the listener and probably for the players too.

Perelman is familiar to many people as one of the great, inspirational
players of our time and he describes Butcher as ‘amazing and responsive’.
This is true.

Perelman and Butcher, Butcher and Perelman. Either way, it is a terrific
combination.

https://music.amazon.com/artists/B000QJT49I/ivo-perelman